Posts by AK

1495

An Old Argument.... does it hold water?

by AK - Jeff in

estimates range from 4 million to 15 million children die from starvation each year on this planet.

that's between 500 and 1700 children a day, depending on what numbers you accept.

still, no matter which numbers you use, doesn't this make you arrive at one of the following conclusions?.

AK - Jeff

I think modern understanding of plate motion ascribes their movement to convection currents in the mantle along with other possible factors like gravity and subduction drag (conveyer belt principle). Convergent and divergent boundaries are simply the result of the movement, including the mid ocean ridges and subduction zones.

Sure would be easier to just believe the earth was made a paradise in 6 days by god, and that earthquakes are a sign that the end of the 7th day [in god's eyes] will usher in that peace lost when a naked lady listened to a talking snake, snuck a bite of god's apple, and ruined paradise. It'll all be over soon, when god fixes it, stops mankind's despicable run in it's tracks, then calms the seas, the seismic plates, and makes the animals all eat veggies again under the reign of a resurrected son of a carpenter [who was not really his son since it was gods' sperm that made his wife prego].

Just sayin'.

Jeff

19

Let's play God.

by Knowsnothing in

jw
friends

say you were god, and you happen to have fallen asleep for these past couple of thousand years.

you wake up to see all the turmoil and such happening in the world.. what would you do to make yourself known and to improve things in the world?.

i'll start it off.

AK - Jeff

Any omnipotent being who can't figure out a way to prove he exists, is an omnipotent being with no imagination

.

Either that, or we have no omnipotent being at all. I'll take that option, since it would be immoral to not show oneself, yet expect people to believe, sacrifice, and live as if they have seen you - oh wait, billions already do!!!!

In that case, just make mankind so susceptible to moronic ideology that they will baaaaaa baaaaa all the way to the grave, happified in total delusion. Then it makes the actual appearance unnecessary, in fact a waste of time, since most of those who already are baaaaa baaaaaing would just assume and assert that your proof of existence was just the Debil anyway.......

Jeff

29

Is there any way around this? (Preaching when you don't believe)

by venusinfauxfurs in

i figure i can do more to wake friends and family up on the inside than the outside and i didn't come to that decision without a great deal of pain.

i know it's not "the truth" but it isn't a bad life for me,and i still very much believe in god.

the witnesses aren't right but neither are the mormons, the catholics, etc and i have other family devoted to both those faiths.

AK - Jeff

I'm in and have to be for now.

Being in or out is a choice. No one HAS TO BE IN. Some might elect to, because it causes less pain than leaving right now. You are creating a false dilemma with your first statement. It simply is not true.

I figure I can do more to wake friends and family up on the inside than the outside and i didn't come to that decision without a great deal of pain.

Probably not. You are inside an insular group who tolerate very little free thought, and even less objection to anything that is dispensed from the 'Society'. The eventuality of your decision will likely be an inability to maintain the charade, being disfellowshipped, or disassociated. Those you attempted to influence will shun you, and pray for days that Jehovah will wash any of your negative comments out of their mind. In the end, you would have wasted precious years inside a lie.

I know it's not "the truth" but it isn't a bad life for me,and I still very much believe in God. The witnesses aren't right but neither are the Mormons, the catholics, etc and i have other family devoted to both those faiths.

Ok. But again, how can you live a lie and feel at peace with 'God' if you believe in him? SO you have identified THREE wrong religions - where is the right one? How does other peoples' devotion have anything to do with your life, your worship? Do three wrongs [or 10,000 wrongs] make a right?

I wrote a thread about panic attacks but they've stopped since i made a decision to stay rather than go or constantly dwell on going.

You have solved a short term problem by attaching yourself longterm to a lying religion? Don't get that.

My question is: for anyone still in, and loves God and the Bible, do you try to have conversations about those things at the door, rather than WT doctrine? This is really a question for christians who are still jehovahs witnesses. Has anyone/ does anyone do this to get around it? I enjoy talking about God and the Bible.

Sorry, I don't fit your category. Once I found the Jehovah's Witnesses to be a lie - I left. Once I found Christianity to be false - I left. Once I found religion in general to be false - I left. Once I found the god-concept to be superstition based on lies and culture rather than truth - I left. I enjoy talking about god and the Bible, just not from the same perspective you enjoy I suppose.

Peace in your journey. Mine took 8 years from finding out that JW's were wrong to now. I have never been happier, and it has exactly nothing to do with religion and everything to do with truth - only that truth is very painful along the way - but worth every spasm in the end.

Just remember this: If your current truth is not, and other truths you know of are not, it is very likely that the truth you adopt will not be truth also.

Just think of this: If you had been born into a muslim nation, you would perhaps now be struggling with leaving one particular muslim faction to believe the truth of another. It's all about culture. Truth really doesn't enter in to it if you allow yourself to think clearly. Thinking clearly takes time though - and you will not ever think clearly inside a cult. There were a few clear thinkers inside Jonestown too - but to a man they all drank the kool-aid.

Jeff

3

Need Help and Advice . . .

by ABibleStudent in

i would like members of jwn to read the following proposed letter to the editor that i wrote and post their comments to this thread.

i am an american so i feel a little uncomfortable sending this message to australian newspapers.

as a christian, human being, and someone who was adversely effected by the wtbts, i feel that i must do something to help other people from being recruited by the wtbts.. peace be with you and everyone, who you love,.

AK - Jeff

My approach is to let it set, get cold. Condense it a bit, smooth it out a little. Rinse and repeat.

You are on the right track, but it looks just a bit rough yet to me. I have the same opinion about getting that message out there. If just one person listens it will be worth it.

Peace/Namaste

Jeff

1495

An Old Argument.... does it hold water?

by AK - Jeff in

estimates range from 4 million to 15 million children die from starvation each year on this planet.

that's between 500 and 1700 children a day, depending on what numbers you accept.

still, no matter which numbers you use, doesn't this make you arrive at one of the following conclusions?.

AK - Jeff

DF - I like your 4th option, but still think that the essence of God can be found in one of the three. In fact, would not option 4 fit into option 2 as regards cause/effect? I must think about that some. It is too early in the morning.

Peace/Namaste

Jeff

1495

An Old Argument.... does it hold water?

by AK - Jeff in

estimates range from 4 million to 15 million children die from starvation each year on this planet.

that's between 500 and 1700 children a day, depending on what numbers you accept.

still, no matter which numbers you use, doesn't this make you arrive at one of the following conclusions?.

AK - Jeff

Oh my! Here comes the 'Biblical proof' again.

Those seeking to explain the world using those silly old Jewish fables, have been as diverse as Billy Graham, David Koresh, and the Jim Jones' suicide squad. History has shown that you can defend virtually any position you like using the Bible - or for that matter, the Koran.

None of that debunks the orginal post on the subject at hand. It just muddies the water.

Jeff

1495

An Old Argument.... does it hold water?

by AK - Jeff in

estimates range from 4 million to 15 million children die from starvation each year on this planet.

that's between 500 and 1700 children a day, depending on what numbers you accept.

still, no matter which numbers you use, doesn't this make you arrive at one of the following conclusions?.

AK - Jeff

I think that a question worthy of some consideration ST.

Jeff

1495

An Old Argument.... does it hold water?

by AK - Jeff in

estimates range from 4 million to 15 million children die from starvation each year on this planet.

that's between 500 and 1700 children a day, depending on what numbers you accept.

still, no matter which numbers you use, doesn't this make you arrive at one of the following conclusions?.

AK - Jeff

OK Jeff if God doesn't matter to ya, then then who really cares if your right or wrong?

When did I ever state that, Nancy?

This discussion, or any that I have entered in recent history about the reality/non-reality of God, has nothing whatsoever to do with it not mattering to me. What clearly matters to me - the point that has caused me to use so much energy trying to discuss the matter is the matter posited in the OP. All the touchy-feely, fuzzy, love of god makes it ok no matter if he is real or not belongs in another discussion, not this one. It has been demonstrated by the theists in this thread that it may not matter to them one way or the other - facts are not of much concern to them - that was my allusion in my brief post - that to theists it would not seem to matter much what the facts were - only that they wish to believe in spite of the facts.

Honestly, it has been like trying to tell a child who is determined that Santa is real to examine the FACTS. Children caught in a fantasy don't wish to know the facts - they just look forward to the REWARDS they envision as a result of the fantasy, and ignore all else.

Q has summed it up well when he said:

God acts as the invisible elephant in the room. Any attempt to discuss a metaphysical concept be it a supposed god or a supernatural effect becomes the equivalent of insulting someone's grandma for the staunch believers.

Your 5 bullet points are spot on as to the method that has been used [almost without exception] in over 60 pages of discussion by the theists in a vain attempt to defend the indefensible positions they have taken.

Jeff

1495

An Old Argument.... does it hold water?

by AK - Jeff in

estimates range from 4 million to 15 million children die from starvation each year on this planet.

that's between 500 and 1700 children a day, depending on what numbers you accept.

still, no matter which numbers you use, doesn't this make you arrive at one of the following conclusions?.

AK - Jeff

So, does it really matter if he's real or pretend?

Apparently not to some.

1495

An Old Argument.... does it hold water?

by AK - Jeff in

estimates range from 4 million to 15 million children die from starvation each year on this planet.

that's between 500 and 1700 children a day, depending on what numbers you accept.

still, no matter which numbers you use, doesn't this make you arrive at one of the following conclusions?.

AK - Jeff

How has this discussion derailed from the original questions to discourse on the proper name and pronunciation of said name when referring to the mythical Jesus or his father? WOW>

Q - your point is well taken and a perspective that I too had not seen before this thread, that consideration of the 'problem' and application of 'false premise', or other arguments without base, creates dishonesty - though most of that is likely unintentional, or diversionary. When seeking to defend the indefensible, what other choices are there, one supposes?

In all honesty, I can imagine this discussion taking place 1000 years in the future among those who have somehow 'uncovered' the 'writings' of Milne. They would be busy defending the pronunciation of the 'Savior' name - is it Christopher Rob-ins or Christopher Roe-bins? And was the discovery of the honey pot just a metaphor for the salvation of humankind? Did Eyor speak - was it the first miracle? And when Tigger arrived on the scene, was he the antipathy of Winnie or was he in fact the 'destroyer' sent to confuse mankind and keep them from following the 'Lord' Christopher?

And why not? Those writings could be inspired by God couldn't they? Perhaps someday archeology will defend our belief that WtP came to point the way to eternal salvation to those humans who pay attention.

In the meantime - back at the ranch - those same 14 million children will starve to death this year, and a billion or so Christians will pray for them not to - and God will not answer those prayers. [Of course A Guest has already explained that only those approved servants are listened to by God, and of course they must not be interested in saving those children unless it is at an alter and baptismal pool perhaps.]

This too, Q, this willingness to sacrifice millions of innocent children in support of a doctrinal belief system is the ultimate immorality isn't it? Instead of waking, smelling the coffee, they are just 'waiting on Jehovah', just like they did as Jw's. For surely 'God is good' - how dare we accuse him of ignoring the beastly reality of famine and death - he is not ignoring - just not dealing with it. He is LOVE!

Wow. The level of dissonance is amazing.

Well, I for one like the idea of praying to Joe Pecsi. I get about the same percentage of result and I can put a face with the name.

Jeff

AK - Jeff

Posts by AK - Jeff